Remembering Benjamin “PAC” Satterley | The Still Real to Us Show | Episode #868 – 10/1/26

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Welcome everybody to this week's edition of the Sto Realta show episode number 868 for October 1st,

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2026. Obviously a different version of the Sto Realta show. Unfortunately throughout the years we

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have had to do these shows when news likes that like this has dropped. We will not be covering

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AW all out today. We will not be having our normal show. Instead we are going to be taking the next.

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However many minutes this episode is unfortunately remembering the life of Benjamin Pock

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Saturday who did wrestle this past Saturday at AW All Out known as Pock and AW Neville,

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Adrian Neville and WWE and NXT. This is a heavy one. I don't feel like doing a normal show.

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You've got Jeff Peck, you've got Dr. Trey Franklin, Benjamin Saturday knowing around the world

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of this Pock and WWE fans as Neville passed away this past Sunday unexpectedly at the age of 40.

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I just turned 40 years old myself. AW announced this passing the night after all out. No cause of

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death has been publicly disclosed and of course we're not going to be speculating about that on this

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week's edition of the podcast by any means or nor anytime soon. Or ever quite honestly. Today is

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simply about remembering Ben Pock talking about the rest where we watch for so many years, the moments

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that stayed with us and the legacy. He leaves behind. Usually this is where we get into the biggest

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stories in wrestling. This week again, neither one of us really wanted to do that after the passing

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of Pock, Neville, the man that gravity forgot. It didn't feel right to talk about anything else

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so this episode is just us remembering him. Dr. Trey, heavy show, heavy thing to go through.

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Sadly we've we've been through this way too many times as wrestling fans as hosts of a wrestling

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podcast. Here we are again. What was your immediate reaction when you heard the news about Pock passing

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away on Sunday night? I think I got to feel worked through Twitter and then immediately everybody was

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on there saying, "Oh it's fake news, it's a hoax, AEW, I act." And it was just shocking because like you

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said, he had just wrestled an incredible match at all out. And you know, just kind of monitoring it

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through the evening. I mean, although it did come out officially on the AEW website officially first

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really, it was just so shocking. It's just like you couldn't believe it was true and then of course,

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you know, the way the internet does with their whole life. It's a hoax, it's fake. You know, Wikipedia says

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this or Google said this. It wasn't everything updated that it kind of sank in that, you know, it's

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real. It's it's truth. It's not a hoax. But you know, I'm sitting here, you know, four days after

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it's announced and it still feels unreal. Like you're still just kind of like, I can't believe

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that really happened. And it may not be until, you know, Fordous Closure Record the show on Wednesday,

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but in Dynamite air tonight, it may not be until I sit down and watch Dynamite tonight that it really

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kind of fully sets in that the world lost lost this man. Like just, you know, one of the better

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in-ring talents of a generation. I'm sure we'll get born to all that stuff here. I love it. But like,

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yeah, as of right now, it still just kind of feels not real and unsettling in a lot of ways as well.

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Yeah, I'm really numb to it. I saw the news about like 50 minutes after it dropped on

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AW social media channels and I just happened to open up Twitter, saw it and I was like, wait, what?

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Like I saw the graphic. I'm like, what does this say? And it was just numb to it. I mean,

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and you look at the date. So I'm born and I'm 40 years old, like I mentioned, you look at the date's

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1986, 2026 and it's like, wow, life is precious. You think about your own mortality. You think about like,

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did something, was there an injury at all out the night before that caused this? Like, how was he found?

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What, how long has this been going on? Like, would you have health issues? Is this real? Like,

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you just jumped to so many conclusions and you're like scatterbrain looking to see if this is

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fabricated or not, then you're seeing like, you know, some of the leading folks in the wrestling journalism

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game like Sean Ross Sapp and John Albagoon Live talking about it. And it was, it was difficult to take in.

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I mean, it's a human being. It's someone who has a wife. I don't believe he had any children.

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Had a lot of bonds with people that he was on the road with. From everything that we're reading,

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was a fantastic and one of a kind human being. But while you want to give flowers in post-mortem,

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you don't at the same moment. You want to say those things when, when people are here about what

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they mean to you and how much they, how much you cherish them while they're here. And we always

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seem to be doing that when it's, when it's after the fact, you know, all of us that live in Linnlis

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into this podcast or part of this podcast, Dr. Trena, we've all experienced loss. And

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in the wrestling community, it's a weird thing because you, at least for me, you get tied to these people,

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you read up on their careers, you watch them grow as human beings. Like there is no other form of

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entertainment that's like that. Like when someone starts their baseball career, you don't see them in

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Little League and they make it to the majors and your heart is full for them. When they play the NFL,

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you don't see them playing Pop Warner and Flag Football and they make it to the NFL someday.

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You watch these men and women in professional wrestling, enter the ring for the very first time

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after being trained and performing and getting better over time and then taking their talents to the

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next level, which in Pox case was in WWE as Neville and then later back on the independent

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wrestling scene in Back in A.W. as Pox. Like, and I remember hearing about him, I went back to some

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of the early shows that we, we covered here and we used to have a gentleman named UK Sue who was

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this big British wrestling fan and I remember him and a former guy that would come on the show a

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lot big time Benning Lopez, who's a big wrestling fan, lives here in the United States, them talking

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about, we were doing like a wrestling roundtable and talking about Pock. You know, people didn't know

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if it was Pock or Pock basically and how big he was on the British wrestling scene and this was

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like the infancy stages of the internet where you would just have to find stuff either through tape

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trading still or on message boards or on YouTube. I mean, there wasn't as what it is today where you

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could go on to a streaming service and watch, you know, a wrestling promotion that is out in London

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or in Germany. And that's how you kind of learned a lot about him or you'd read about him up on

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PWInsider or oneRustling.com and that's how it was and it's a beautiful sport in that way Dr.

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Tre where you see these people grow from their very first matches to their unfortunately last match

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and there's a connection between the wrestlers and fans that is kind of unsaid but when spoken

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out loud it's truly a beautiful thing and that's all I could kind of think about when I think about

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Pock because he's almost like a distant family member that you don't know but you know something about

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as a wrestling fan. And me being somewhat in the inner wrestling community is kind of like the

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older seven degrees of Kevin Bacon but when you're inside the business it's like two.

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You know I'm literally like they're not just like having this all happen I'm like I'm watching

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like guys I'm friends with like post these heartfelt messages about you know their experiences

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with Pock and you know it's just like damn like in you your heart goes that even more because you know

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people you care about are hurting because you know of his passing it just it

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once it kind of puts everything in perspective like you know you're mentioning earlier like you

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just turned 40 I turned 50 next year like this this guy's you know this young man's like 10 years

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younger than me and I'm like yeah he's traveled the world and he's seen a lot of stuff but I'm like yeah

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it's amazing I'm still here and that person is gone so you get a little bit of like survivor guilt

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off of it in a sense well but you know it's it's it's weird sometimes when when we lose somebody in

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this business and you see a lot of outpouring of love but then there are people who are quiet about

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it it's like okay maybe those people are just kind of holding their tongue because they didn't like

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this person it's this has been uniformly like you know just one of the nicest sweetest guys in

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in wrestling and you know it's ironic and tragic that one of the last things he posts it was his

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picture with the butcher you know from just you know they just posted just a couple weeks ago after

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the butcher's passing it's just it's heartbreaking in the sense of losing somebody who's so

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incredibly talented way before we should have lost them it's heartbreaking when I see people that

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I love and I care about hurting so badly because we lost this person is just sad for the

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wrestling community's whole because you know we went through this kind of in the early 2000s where we

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lost a bunch of guys you know you know the British Bulldog and all these guys you know they run the

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same time and then we had a reprieve and it just kind of feels like the last year and a half has

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been like no we're getting back into that that circle again and it's just like man like it's just

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succing all these people that we kind of look up to and admire and cherish and you know just

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losing their lives way before it's really time what was the first pock novel moment that came into

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your mind as you kind of reminisce about him dr. tre so I knew absolutely nothing about pock really

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until he got to NXT like I would read about him and it was almost like big foot of sense I make

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these jokes sometimes where it's like yeah there are rumors of this really talented British guy

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doesn't crazy aerial stuff but I could never see him like I would get these videos and it'd be kind

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of blurry or grainy or they're just shot in a weird angle and you just you're like okay that guy

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seems cool just don't know about him you know and you and I when when we first started to show like

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I was watching NXT on YouTube before got moved to the network and and I kind of break up NXT

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there's like the YouTube air which to me is defined by bodalis and then there's the original

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network launch which to me is defined by Neville and Sammy's ain't and that first when he first

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debuted in NXT I was like man first of all he's way smaller than I thought he was going to be I hear

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about him on the internet and you hear like guys like you case two and these guys talking about him

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first you're like man this guy's larger than life like he's a real life superhero and then you

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see me like he's like 5'8" and 170 pounds he's like this flying ball of muscle with these really

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pointy ears I kind of thought like he was part elf when I first saw him I was like well maybe this is

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when Peter Jackson wrote Lord of the Rings Neville was the guy he was using the typecast you know

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some of these people but you see him in the ring and you're like man this guy is incredible

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so though those first early matches in NXT when they got just basically kind of showcase

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his talents but then really that latter match with bow Dallas for the NXT championship was a

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kind of really kind of like set it off from like now this guy's incredible like I I think you and I

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you can go back and look at the history of the show like I always said like I never thought WWE

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would use him right because of his size but NXT he was used right and it made a ton of sense and

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but that first latter match with bow Dallas where he won the NXT championship was really kind of

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what cemented my fandom for Pock. Let's look at the journey here for Pock so he's born in Newcastle

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upon Ty and England began his professional wrestling career in 2004 built his reputation

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international and long before WWE wrestled across the British scene dragging AWG and around the world

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his athleticism was the obvious hook but what's separated was how precise everything looked

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the spectacular never-loved reckless with Pock/Nevil the black arrow became one of wrestling

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became one of wrestling's most recognizable finishing moves the corkscrew shooting star press

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like in the late 90s the shooting star press was already a difficult move and here he is doing a

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corkscrew shooting star press he had a rivalry with ricochet a Pock and ricochet became defining

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rivals during their dragging eight years in November 2011 ricochet ended Pock's 447 day

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opened the brave gate championship reign that rivalry became part of the blueprint for the explosive

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athletic style that would become increasingly influential throughout wrestling today.

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What stood out about Pock he could do things athletically that very few wrestlers could do but he

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was never only a quote "high flyer" it was power intensity, technical wrestling, selling, pacing

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and character work that eventually made him one of the most complete wrestlers of his generation.

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Dr. Trey was there ever another wrestler whose movement in the ring looked quite like his?

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This sounds bad. The closest thing I am not on the high flying level but the way his movement

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in the ring was Chris Benoit. Everything was so Chris. I think there were lurid times watching

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level or a K-A Pock that I'm like is he really hitting this guy? Is it like he blurred the line?

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A lot of times in the ring between that like is this real? Is this fake? Because everything he did was

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so Chris so clean so violent looking but in a lot of ways like really beautifully artistically

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done. Like he was to me like when you talk about like the artistry of pro wrestling Pock is an artist

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like everything he did was just that beautiful blend of violence and poetry at the same time.

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Yeah no he is he's in an eggma. His style in the ring is unmatched and I like the comparisons.

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It reminds me of Benoit, Dynamite Kid, that short, stocky muscular person just like this muscle hamster

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that's out there and he was able to evolve where he was just this short skinny with muscle still

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high flyer into a walking muscle that could do things in the ring that you've never seen before.

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Truly exceptional. Always love the character work. Loved how much he kept K-Fabe in the last,

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I would say 8 to 10 years of his career when he was in NXT and it was the man that gravity

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forgot he was a baby face that was a very good baby face. When he started becoming the king of the

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Cruiserweights and turned heel one of a kind. They put that cape on him for a little bit and then when

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he started doing King of the Cruiserweights which basically morphed into who he was towards the end

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of his career. It's just such a fun overall character and for me my real first introduction to him

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like you Dr. Trey was those NXT years. So Pock Neville signed with WWE in 2012 becoming

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an agey Neville. He was an NXT Tag Team Champion and NXT Champion. He held the NXT Championship

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for 286 days from February 27th which was that launch for the WWE Network when they did NXT

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arrival where he defeated Bodeals in that latter match to December 11th 2014 where he dropped the

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title to I believe Samisane. His Championship run came during the era when NXT was transforming from

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developmental television to the brand's brand that fans become passionate about today. His title

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lost to Samisane and NXT takeover our evolution in December remains connected to one of the defying

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stories of early NXT. He debuted on WWE's main roster in 2015 to solely his Neville. They dropped

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Adrian WWE market him as the man that gravity forgot. His red arrow immediately gave WWE

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something visually different from almost anyone else on the roster. He reinvented himself as a heal

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and became the King of the Cruiserweights, won the WWE Cruiserweights Championship twice, first reign

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last in 196 days. The character showed a completely different side of him, bitter, intense, vicious

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and most importantly believable. It proved he could be much more than a spectacular athlete

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WWE originally presented. What stood out for him there were two very two very different WWE

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versions of Benjamin Sattelay worth remembering. Adrian Neville, the breathtaking babyface who

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helped establish NXT and then Neville, the angry King of the Cruiserweights who showed how good his

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character work would be. Dr. Trey, which WWE version of Neville did you enjoy the most?

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>> Well, naturally the villain in me loved the King of the Cruiserweights version of Neville more.

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I like the pissed off angry guy because it's hard to be an undersized heal without a stable around

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you. In the rest of me, calm the heaters. You get the small, pocket arrogant heal and then he's

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got the big muscle guy behind him. Neville never had that. He didn't need it. Now in WWE's

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defense in a sense, they kept him in the Cruiserweights division where he was physically on par with

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everybody else. But that run, especially when he brought in the brutalizer as a finisher, you're

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just like man, that realism in the character. It felt so natural for me, so pissed off and angry

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and bitter. It just fit him so well, which was kind of a surprising twist because the Adrian Neville

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character, the high-flying baby face, it never showed any inkling of that. But that Neville,

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brutalizer, King of the Cruiserweights, that guy, it was really like to this day. There are very

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few characters that I watch and I go I wouldn't mess with that guy. That version of Neville was that guy.

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I'm like yeah, that guy just looks too pissed off, too angry, too muscular and too athletic for me to

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even fathom competing against in anything. It was as close to real life characterization as I've

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seen in wrestling in a long time. Yeah, that was him in a nutshell. I mean he was one of a kind.

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He was truly, again, I just used the word enigma when I think of him and I loved, really now, again,

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here we are throwing our flowers for it's in, but when you think about the character adjustments he made

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in WWE, I mean it's phenomenal. He went from one end of the spectrum of being like this comic book hero

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to the bastard that we ended up seeing in AEW. And that's where it takes us here, Dr. Trey, and this next

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chapter as we remember, Pock Benjamin Saddley was his time in AEW. He joined AEW in 2019.

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As one of the promotions important early signings, he was red hot on the independent wrestling scene. He

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had not lost on the independent wrestling scene and there was like a little bit of a

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cripple about him and his feud with Hangman out of page because he didn't want to lose to Hangman

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Page and like there was something where he was gone for AEW for a little bit and maybe talking

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in WWE about a return, then eventually came back to AEW. The name Pock returned but the presentation

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was completely different from WWE's Neville. The bastard felt like the fully realized version of

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everything he could do, a lead athlete, dangerous wrestler and believable character. There was the

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death triangle triangle, his partnership with Penton Ray Phoenix became one of AEW's most memorable

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trios. Death triangle gave AEW three wrestlers with widely different personalities who somehow fit

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together perfectly. Pock later became a two-time AEW World Trios Champion. Remember that

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that was Trio Swar, the vest of seven between them and the elite that was a lot of fun with the

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NBA on NBC music playing every time they would promote it. He made history at Forbidden Door 2022,

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Pock defeated Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors to become the inaugural AEW All-Annic Championship.

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That championship was later renamed to today the AEW International Championship. In his later

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years he eventually became part of the Death Riders, even after years on television he gets up into

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virtually any match and immediately feel credible against anyone. His final match, the Dr. Trey

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talked about the beginning there, came at AEW all out this past Saturday September 26th,

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where he challenged on Dr. A. L. Edelow for the AEW National Championship.

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It's very difficult to process that one of the last images wrestling fans have of him is still

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doing what he had done for more than two decades, performing at the highest level in a championship match.

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What stood out for Pock, AEW never needed to explain why Pock was dangerous. Fans believed at the moment

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he walked through the curtain. Dr. Trey, what Pock match rivalry or death triangle moment will

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you go back and watch first as you kind of go back and remember Pock and all the wrestling?

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Actually, one of the first matches I went back and watched was from all out 2024 that match with

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the Will Ospreay. That was a fantastic match. It got overshadowed because that was Swarven Hangman

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were on that show, a couple of bigger matches, but that match, kind of to me, was the launch of Will

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Ospreay to where he's at now. You and I have thrown out the phrase like the best soldier in a company.

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Bench and Chris Jericho in the past, Ray and Jordan, levels that guy for AEW. When you're trying to

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get somebody over, you put them in the ring of the level. They're going to have a great match. People

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inherently wanted to boo, level, AKA Pock, sorry, but it launched a lot of guys, but that match

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with Ospreay last year was fantastic. I think I actually read that that was the only

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Meltzer-Given 5-star match of Pock's career. Some people say it was because of Ospreay, but that

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match, you go back and watch, it was just incredible. Was it the Iron Man match he had with Hangman?

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Also back in like 2022, I think it was. It was really good. Man, his match with Orange Cassidy,

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with that rivalry he had with Orange, was really underrated because it was just so two totally

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different styles. I saw somebody refer to as the Bugs Bunny Wrestling Style of Orange Cassidy

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versus the Tony soprano wrestling style of Pock, where it's just like comic versus like just

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serious, going to just try to kill you. Even that match, I'm sure it'll get maybe some undo

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love later on because it was last match, but even that match with Andrade Saturday night was

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fantastic as well, but that was just a couple of the ones I gave him top of my head from his A.E.W. Run.

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Did AW give us the best overall version of Pock in your mind?

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I think they gave us the best character version of Pock we could get, like the presentation when

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he first debuted, and then, you know, Justin Roberts the way he announced it, and everything

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else. I think it gave it the best character presentation you could do. He is bastard.

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Yeah, that was so good, you know. And I think it was Marina or somebody like Ermai Ben Asprey

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said he's our bastard. Like I love that. Getting a little choked up thinking about that.

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You and I had talked about like I was waiting for the Pock Claudio to kick Moxley out the death

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writers angle, which I'm sure was going to come around at some point. I got really excited a few

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months ago when they did Pock in Claudio versus Cajun Cope because I was like, man, I'd love to see Claudio

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in Pock just be a full-time tag team because their styles would have blended together so well.

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We got instances of it, but you know, it was always kind of like Pock and Udo or Claudio and Garcia.

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It was never just Pock and Claudio. So I still think there was a lot to do with the Pock character,

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but presentation-wise, I think AIDA, if you had a home run with that character and how they presented it,

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and how he showcased what he really wanted that character to become.

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Let's talk a little bit about how the wrestling world has responded, Tony Khan said,

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Benjamin Sattelay defined excellent praising his wrestling knowledge, athleticism, professionalism,

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consistency, and dedication to the sport. We'll ask for a call from the greatest expert from our

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country and describe Pock as a hero. Tributes have come from wrestlers of promotion across the

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industry and not just AIDW, WWE opened both Raw and NXT with Memorial Graphics honoring Neville/Pock.

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Penta, Becky Lynch, and Bailey were among those who publicly honored him on Raw.

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The Rock also joined the many people throughout wrestling and paying tribute.

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AIDW has the addition of Dynamite dedicated to him this evening. We are recording this before

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that show airs. So if you're listening to this on Thursday, that's why it may sound a little bit

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different with that show not already taking place. As Dr. Trenor recorded this, Will Osprey versus

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Reckashe 2 wrestlers whose careers are deeply connected to Pock was announced specifically as a match

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in his honor. This is the legacy of Benjamin Sattelay that will be showcased. He wrestled for more than

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two decades, helped to find an air of NXT. He became one of WWE's most memorable cruiser weights.

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He became an important part of AIDW from its earliest years. He influenced a generation of wrestlers

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who saw that size that not limit him how believable, physical, or spectacular a wrestler could be.

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And perhaps the most telling part of the reaction to his passing is how many people have talked

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about Ben, the person, not just Pock, the wrestler. Dr. Trenor's, we look at final reflections here.

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What made Pock special to you as a wrestling fan?

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As a babyface, he was defined by the plucky underdog super hero abilities that kids look up to.

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You talk about defining a generation 20 years. I mean, you go back his debut in 2012. I mean, that's 14

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years ago. There are kids now who are breaking into wrestling at 20 years old who saw him when they were

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six. That's one of those influences. That's one of those guys they could look and go, hey, I'm

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under six foot tall. I'm under 200 pounds. But I could do this. I could be like this person.

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Ray Mysterio defined those guys for the generation that you and I grew up in. Neville's one of those guys

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that can define it for this generation. As a heel to be that small, but to be just like

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just an utter pit bull of tenacity. Like you just you knew if if Pock was in that match,

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it was going to be hard hitting. It was going to be physical. It was going to feel uncomfortable

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at times. And for guys like us that still love old school wrestling where it felt like you were

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about to watch a fight. If Pock was in the ring, you felt like it was going to be a fight.

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You know, older guys like us, we bitch and complain about we don't like the flippy wrestling. We

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don't like all the high flying stuff. I never had that issue with Pock. I could watch a Pock

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match any day of the week. And even though there's going to be some crazy high flying spots,

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it made sense for what he was doing as a character. So I think the biggest legacy for him is just going

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to be kind of helping redefine this current generation of wrestling we're watching and setting the

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bar really, really high. So that when people don't measure up guys like you and me get to call them out

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on it. Yeah, he is he's a special special wrestler. Again, defined a generation. There's

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there's there's many of them that are out there, but I don't know if we ever have a ricochet if

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there's no Pock. I don't know if we ever have a Will Osprey if there's no Pock. I don't know if we

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have the athleticism, the move set that he brought to the forefront and defined that is now what I

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would refer to as almost normal nowadays. Well, about 20 plus years ago, it wasn't normal. It wasn't

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normal to do a corkscrew shooting star press. It wasn't normal to do flips and be a tight technical

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wrestler given his size when you were that size that like Pock and Benjamin Sattelay was. It was

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you were defined strictly as a high flyer and not someone that could be this snap mirror takedown,

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snap suplex, vicious pit bull as you said or bulldog in that ring with a defined

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character that was believable. Given his size, he's probably in height around the same height as

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Dr. Trainai, maybe smaller, but I would be scared, shitless if I was in a dark alley with Pock.

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What's really cool to hear about is that character that we saw on TV, that bastard, that king of the

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cruiser weights, that man that gravity forgot was not the same person that was off the screen.

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That person off the screen was someone who is beloved, someone that is appreciated and someone who will

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be deeply missed. He will be deeply missed by all of his co-workers, the people that worked with

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him, the people that knew him, and he will be deeply missed by his fans. There's really no easy way to

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close out these episodes, Dr. Trainai. I'm going to withhold from doing our plugs and spots this week

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because I don't find that to be very appropriate right now. Before we do close up, this week's edition

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the show, any final thoughts in regards to our member and seer of Benjamin Pock, sadly.

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The people that you mentioned, the ricochet is the boss phrase, take a guy like Javan Evans.

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Javan Evans is 20 years old, 21. That's the people we're talking about. That's the generation of wrestling

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that is defined and influenced by Pock. Our people like Javan Evans, who, six years old,

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is when Neville joined WWE. That's about the time he said he became a wrestling fan.

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So seeing guys do the stuff that Neville/Pock could do in a ring is what influenced guys like Javan

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Evans. And Neville would say he was influenced by guys like the Dynamite Kid.

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Those are the ones that last forever. You and I have told stories to friends and younger people about

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like, "Oh my God, you think that's high-tech, right? Go back and watch tapes of the British Bulldogs."

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That's going to be the Javan Evans Deville Ospreys. You think, "I'm good, man. You need to go

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back and watch tapes of Pock when he was in Dragon Gator, PWG, or check out this." Those things like that

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define wrestling, but the person he was, you see the outpouring of love from everybody around.

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There's nobody being quiet about this. Everybody's saying how much they love him. If the rock comes out

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and says, "Give flowers to a guy like Pock," you know. And rock never crossed paths with him from as far as

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I know. But that's the kind of person that Benjamin Saturday was. So his wrestling legacy is well

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defined, but as a person, the outpouring of love and support just shows what the measure of the man

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really was. Dynamite's going to be a heavy show. Most people, you all are listening to this after you

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probably seen that show. We have not seen it yet. We are recording it on Wednesday. This is where we

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typically record the show for the time being. It's going to be a beautiful tribute. I wish we didn't

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have to watch it by any means, but it's going to be emotional night for wrestling fans and wrestlers

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around the world and the wrestling community in general. So there isn't really a perfect way to end

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an episode like this. We will be back next week with our normal run and talk about everything going

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on wrestling. But for now, it did not feel appropriate to talk about anything other than this when we

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lose a member of our wrestling community and family. Someone that is so impactful and important to

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all of us in Benjamin Park, sadly. So rather than to summarize our career that took Benjamin

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sadly all over the world, we'll just say thank you. Thank you for the matches. Thank you for the

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moments. Thank you for everything you gave professional wrestling. Rest in peace, Ben.